Comments on: Disciplinary Heresies and the Digital Humanities http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/ The Humanities And Technology Camp Sat, 04 Jun 2011 13:00:14 +0000 hourly 1 https://wordpress.org/?v=4.9.12 By: Sterling Fluharty http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-137 Fri, 12 Jun 2009 04:03:55 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-137 Your questions have perplexed even some of the best in digital history. Just check out the discussion in the Interchange that appeared in the Journal of American History. I agree with you that it would be wonderful if traditional historians embraced their digital colleagues with open arms. But if Dan Cohen’s tweeting tonight was any indication, we can expect a fair amount of resistance from these stakeholders in our profession. Trying to outlive these individuals may sound workable to you, but I think that overlooks how and why the traditional methods of history are reproduced in each successive generation. But please feel free to prove me wrong. I think we share the same goals.

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By: THATCamp » Blog Archive http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-136 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 21:22:18 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-136 […] dovetail nicely, I think, with those that have been raised by Sterling Fluharty in his two posts. The panel at last year’s THATCamp that I found the most interesting was the one on […]

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By: ewg118 http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-135 Mon, 08 Jun 2009 13:03:20 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-135 I find the phrases “digital humanities” or “digital history” to be weird sometimes. If someone gets an MA in digital history, what does that mean, exactly? How does it differ from an MA in history? What about a degree in digital humanities? The humanities are quite broad. I agree that the digital humanities should be mainstreamed, i. e., that technological approaches to humanities research and teaching become integrated into traditional approaches, and that we no longer see the traditional humanities/digital humanities as a black and white issue–that text mining, visualization, geospatial analysis, etc. are just part of the humanities.

I think that there are already many students and scholars who are using technological tools but see no distinction between their work and the work undertaken by colleagues who are not using those tools. I think that you can see this in the field of archaeology. Archaeologists started using technology to aid in their studies about 30 years ago. In the last 10, GIS has been readily accepted throughout the field. Many are using it, and there is no longer a distinction between archaeologists who use GIS and those who do not. The challenge, then, is to figure out how to get scholars from other humanities disciplines to recognize the potential of technological tools. I have a feeling many scholars are not as close-minded about technology as some of use would think. And those that are highly resistant to the tools, even after illustration of tangible results, can be dealt with (as one wise man once said about this issue) one funeral at a time.

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By: Sterling Fluharty http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-134 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 14:59:57 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-134 Larry:

Is that what you say about Wikipedia articles also? 😉

Maybe we can just agree that as long as we work with or produce for the public, then what we do is bound to be relevant for them at some level.

I share your enthusiasm about the mainstreaming of digital humanities. I would have smiled too if a student of mine had made that kind of observation. I guess it remains to be seen how egalitarian our field of digital humanities will become.

You are absolutely right that we can do a better job of learning from our critics. I have sought out some of their writings and put them on my reading list:

www.zotero.org/groups/digital_history/items/collection/136593

www.zotero.org/groups/digital_history/items/collection/136394

But let me just state for the record that I will not lie about who I am or what I believe in order to get a job. My department has already tried, more than once, to punish me for my blogging. I expect similar resistance from many others in our profession once they realize the stakes involved. I just hope there will be mutual respect, genuine dialogue, a tolerance for new ideas, and willingness to change when doing so makes sense.

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By: Larry Cebula http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-133 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 07:10:35 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-133 Too linky and not enough cowbell.

I never know what people mean when they say they want the humanities to be relevant. Of course history is relevant, it explains how you got here. What people seem to mean by “relevant” is either practical (“History will make you a better lawyer!”) or political (“So you see, the Halfway Covenant illustrates why you should vote for Obama.”). Either way, I’m agin’ it.

As to the mainstreaming of digital humanities, let us hope so. This quarter in my digital history class a student raised an interesting point. I forget the exact wording but he pointed out that the same dozen names came up again and again in many of the things we were reading, and they all seemed to work at a half-dozen places, and their claims to fame were a limited series of high-tech online history projects (ie: Valley of the Shadow)… The gist of his comment was that digital history seemed more like an expensive private fraternity than a widespread movement. I gave him an A right there.

(And Sterling, you and I could learn from Mr. Mentor, prickly as he is.)

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By: Sterling Fluharty http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-132 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 03:01:05 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-132 Dr. Francis Jones of Stevens Institute of Technology:

I respect your right to share your opinions about me and to insult the field of digital humanities. I noticed that your comment seemed much more directed at the readers of this blog than at the author of this post. So I look forward to hearing what my colleagues have to say. I am not ashamed by what I wrote. And you can thank me for helping you to take your own advice and attaching your name to your writings.

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By: mr. mentor http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-131 Fri, 05 Jun 2009 01:33:50 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-131 Mr. Fluharty presents a rather muddled series of comments none of which add up to much of an analysis. He arrives at conclusions that his analysis fails to develop. What is the essence of his position? That the humanities must become more like the sciences because in doing so the humanities will be able to gather more research dollars because research dollars are given out on the basis of quantitative disciplinary practices which tradtional humanistic studies do not engage in to the extent tha Mr. Fluharty would like. Of course, he assumes that the sciences and social sciences can be “validated” by quantitative methods and for any one who has studied the Philosohphy of Science, which Mr. Fluharty clearly has not, would see this as a point needing debating. As one who claims to be a graduate student in history, Mr. Fluharty seems unaware of the Annales School that in the 1950’s moved to introduce more quantitative methods to the study of history. Therefore, to claim that there is anything new about “digital humanism” seems more a result of his limited reading and research. In addition, just this week the Able Prize in Mathematics(known as the Noble Prize for Mathematics) was awarded to 65 year old NYU Prof. Gromov. Previous winners have been even older. Therefore, the claims about the Field metal etc. seems a bit thin. That there is need to re-think the place of the humanities is clear but to do so in the limited way Mr. Fluharty seems more a product of his own limited reading. In addition, what is the difference between the close reading and analysis taught by traditional study and the close observation and precise thinking taught by the sciences? Clear and precise thinking is something that cuts across disciplines and methods. Mr. Fluharty also conflates mathematics with science which it is not, science with the social sciences with little regard to the history of the social sciences in the 19th and 20th centuries. One can go on to point out other flaws. However, a word of advice: do not put your name to many more of these kinds poorly considered writings. You do not want to create a track record to be followed by professors on a search committee.

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By: Sterling Fluharty http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-130 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:48:19 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-130 I appreciate you adding a historical perspective to this discussion. You are absolutely right that the failed flirtation with quantitative methods, particularly the grandiose claims that never panned out, hang as an ominous shadow over history, and the humanities more generally, to this day. Perhaps that is one of the reasons why history shifted away from the social sciences and is now almost completely identified with the humanities. I can’t help but wonder, though, whether history could evolve again, since it has changed in significant ways before.

You sound fairly optimistic about intellectual accommodation. I suppose I am less sanguine. I have known professors whose colleagues have voted to deny them tenure because they strayed too far outside of the orthodoxy for traditional historical methods. Examples would include privileging oral history over textual records, straying too far into the realms of economics or sociology, or violating the cardinal rule of individual authorship. Maybe we need to do a better job of testing the waters and figuring out how far our fellow humanists will allow us to stray from the traditional research methods of the humanities before we are considered heretics.

I think you raise a fair question in asking whether we can realistically expect doctoral students in the digital humanities to learn the ins and outs of interdisciplinary work spanning the cognitive, computer, information, and social sciences. There are a lot of reasons to expect what you say about specialization to come true. But if fragmentation has been the default mode for academic disciplines over the last few decades, we should also be asking how it was ever possible for cognitive science, which is interested in computational approaches to intelligence, to emerge as a new and distinct discipline that is now represented in programs on over sixty college campuses. Another example, perhaps closer to our disciplinary homes, is the recent rise of academic centers and doctoral programs in social complexity and the computational social sciences. Were these just exceptions to the overall general pattern in academia? Or do they suggest that the impulse to engage in interdisciplinary work has sometimes overwhelmed disciplinary boundaries?

I love your final question. I look forward to what others have to say about avoiding the pitfalls of quantitative social history in the 1970s. There may be lessons in our past that prove relevant for navigating the disciplinary terrain of the present and future.

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By: ShermanDorn http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-129 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 15:03:52 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-129 At one level, digital humanities will probably go the way of history departments that began accommodating quantitative research (including recognition in T&P), esp. after the development of quantitative social history in the 1960s and 1970s. But that accommodation was limited in many departments to the “oh, yeah, you’re one of Them, but we like you and know you do good stuff. Just don’t ask us to learn about logistic regression” type. So you’ll see the “we’re all good intellectuals” accommodation in plenty of places.

In terms of the broader intellectual questions, that’s probably going to depend heavily on the type of graduate training that exists for the current and next cohort of doctoral students in the humanities. Here, we’re asking what may be an impossible stretch: “Learn the latest tech, learn the deep knowledge of the discipline, oh, yes, and don’t forget that most of you will not have R1-type jobs where you’ll be able to do your day job, continue to read in the discipline, and also conduct the research that’s publishable.” I think we’re inevitably going to see fragmentation/specialization, which will produce interesting work but leave the bigger intellectual questions on the table, or at least to the side.

But I wouldn’t assume that’s any worse than the fate of quantitative social-science history. There are plenty of productive social and cultural historians who acknowledge the role of quantitative research, and they’re willing to put in a table (or two) in a book.

So maybe one conversation at THATCamp could focus around, “how could the fate of digital humanities be better than quantitative social history?”

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By: Clio Machine » Disciplinary Heresies and the Digital Humanities http://chnm2009.thatcamp.org/06/03/disciplinary-heresies-and-the-digital-humanities/#comment-128 Wed, 03 Jun 2009 09:47:48 +0000 http://thatcamp.org/?p=87#comment-128 […] Cross-posted at THATCamp: […]

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